by Kerryann Ivey about October 28, 2018

Amen Sylvia 

by Sylvia Todd about October 27, 2018

Hello again, Kerryann, appreciate your thoughts :). Rather than go on with more detail on the topic, I think it's better at this point simply to pray for peace for you and for the loved ones who are left. Feelings of anger, confusion, and grief over this kind of situation are natural and part of the healing process. Praying that He helps all those who loved Daniel to find closure, peace, and renewed strength to carry on after his loss, in the name of Jesus, amen <3

by Kerryann Ivey about October 27, 2018

Thank you Sylvia I appreciate your response. This is a tough one, and I agree that hat only God knows the answer. I do however believe that God is bigger than mental health which is why it’s important to seek him earnestly. Committing suicide is a choice, but one becoming sick is not a choice, it's something that happens. A person who has cancer doesn’t kill oneself, cancer kills that person.  Likewise mental illness does not kill a person, it’s ones act of committing suicide that kills a person. A person has no choice to get cancer. In fact, if one had a choice then I believe that person would not want to have cancer. However, a person has a choice whether to commit suicide or not. It’s just too bad that Daniel wasn’t strong enough to face another day. He wasn’t suppose to go like this. His death was a plot of the devil. I miss him so much and kind of wish we didn’t know each other because then I wouldn’t be hurting so much. Suicide should never be an option and is against the will of God in my opinion. No one has the right to take a life except for the one who gives life which is God. Yes God is the final judge. However, we use his word as a guidance to keep us on the straight and narrow path not the wide and broad path. It was never God's will to have wars and crimes. I know Daniel personally so I know that he was doubting whether God existed or not. He told me once that his atheist friend was causing him to doubt his faith. It’s  very important to stand firm on ones faith in God because when we don’t the devil creeps in, and things such as suicide is the end result. I sure hope he’s resting in peace. I must let him go, but it's just so hard. Thank you again for taking time to respond to me question. I'm trusting God to show me a clear sign regarding this matter.

by Sylvia Todd about October 27, 2018

Hey Kerryann, my condolences again over your friend - such a tragic loss ;(. I believe Dion covered the answer very well, but just throwing out a few thoughts here in response to your concerns on God's wrath. As Dion mentioned, really, only God knows. It is His place to judge, not ours. These are just some personal thoughts I have on the matter.

First, and I don't know if this applied to your friend, but one perspective to consider is if a person has a serious mental illness that ended in suicide, that person may not be any more responsible than the person who died from another illness, like cancer. Just because an illness is invisible, it doesn't make it less of a burden.

Another thing, as I know this sounds obvious, being a believer is not the same as being Jesus. When we first become believers, we are mostly not mature in our faith or our spiritual strength. If we follow in His plans for us, those will grow, and we will reflect more of His nature. Still, it's unlikely in our lifetime that we will end up without sins and weaknesses. It is His redemption that covers those sins, and our relationship with Him. So, if we have, for instance, a new believer who is trying to follow but doesn't have much in the way of an "arsenal" of faith and maturity, perhaps makes a mistake that even kills him, my view is that person is probably a "casualty of war" and perhaps not blamed for being less mature than someone who had the advantage of starting earlier. I'm not saying that was exactly the case with your friend - that example is maybe the extreme beginning, but we are all somewhere on that spectrum.

Third, and I really don't know the answer to this, but there are many situations where a person may kill, that are not accidents, and we do not all look at them in the same way. I don't know how God sees them, but just something to think about. We all, of course, think it's bad when a person just outright kills for greed. What about though, if one kills as a soldier during a war, or in an act of self-defense, or to protect a child? Even a bit more murky, if a person breaks into our house and has not threatened us yet, yet we feel threatened? What about capital punishment? Again, I don't have answers as to what God may think about all that, but that many people already put killing into situational checkboxes, and for people to think they can decide which checkbox suicide goes into is probably a mistake (not saying that you were doing that, Kerryann, not at all - it's an idea that already exists). Naturally, I completely agree with Dion that suicide is not the answer, because it ends our options to continue, to improve, and to serve in His plans.

As a final thought: As we go along in our lives, trying to follow Jesus, most, if not all, will make mistakes and have baggage. One thing we have found is that He does not load us up with the thousand things we may have to fix in our lives at one time. Depending on our upbringing and life circumstances, we may not even realize that some of those things are a problem; it is easy for people to be blind to their own issues. His redemption covers the entirety of our sinful nature, that we inherited before we even did anything. It is not necessary to be "re-saved" every time we do something wrong. To point at "any" one act that may keep us out of heaven, I think, is very likely a mistake, as He probably sees a hundred other things that we may not...but Jesus covers all of that. That "any", of course, may not count complete willful rebellion against Him (God is not going to be used) and according to scripture, blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. I believe that anyone who is trying though, would not do either of those. 

Ok, that was a bit lengthier than I first planned, so sorry about that! Continuing to pray for the loved ones of your friend, sister <3!

by Kerryann Ivey about October 26, 2018

Thank you pastor Dion. I’ve always wondered about this question, so thank you for helping me to have a better understanding. Regarding your point of view about one's grand mother, she did not run the traffic light with the intent of killing herself, so I would expect that she would make it to the promise land. The bible does say "thou shall not kill," and when one commits suicide that's murdering oneself which goes against the word of God. This is why it's also pretty tough for me to understand what truly happens when someone commits suicide where that person will spend their final resting place. Yes God's grace is sufficient for us. However, God's wrath is present as well when we disobey him. Exodus 9 is a perfect example of this. I would love to know that Daniel made it to the promise land, but like you stated only that person who committed suicide truly knows what happens after the suicide attempt. I’m hoping that he’ll make it to the promise land and I’ll get to see him in the afterlife. He was truly a great person in this life. It’s just so sad that he had to depart from this earth this way. Thank you.

by Dion Todd about October 26, 2018

That is a pretty tough question as only someone who had actually committed suicide could tell you for sure. The Bible does not clearly address suicide in that sense. The Hell, fire and brimstone preachers take: "Thou shall not murder" and use that, then sum up that if you murder yourself you didn't have time to ask for forgiveness, so you would die in sin and go to hell if you committed suicide.

 

That makes God look pretty unforgiving. For example, if your Grandmother who had served God her who life, ran a traffic light and suddenly got broadsided at an intersection and died before she could repent, would God put her in hell? To me, that is extremely unlikely. 

 

What people do not take into account is that God understands.  1Peter 4:8 says "that love covers a multitude of sins." His loving us, and our loving Him in return. God understands our pain. As far as being saved, these two scriptures kind of cover it:

 

"If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved" (Romans 10:9).

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16).

 

I want to be clear that suicide is never the right answer. There is always hope, and if you will hang on another day, things may begin to look a lot differently. They did for me. We all go through bad times, but we don't stay there. God will come through for us in the end if we look to Him and hang on. But when people go through so much pain that they will kill themselves to be free of it, I personally do not think that God will throw them away.